OPEN DISSCUSSION: the science of vampires & their venom

Freakonapeach

I would like to reiterate my previous statement, just because it seems like it got lost in translation. Like i said; the vampires are Venomous, and thus the venom requires direct contact with the blood stream to make anything happen, and unless bella has a Ulcer in her stomach or a canker sore in her mouth, nothing would happen.

[/being all scientific and stuff]

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isawayorkiepoo · Number of posts: 8 Registration date: 2009-03-31

Agent Nudie Pants wrote:

Okay...not to get too far into the ick factor here...someone edit it if it is...but...
Vampires....made like DIAMOND...hardest substance known to man... It's not all that uncommon for small tears to occur in..places...even during normal...intense romantic encounters. So with Edward being a vamp and all diamond-y...I would have seen bella easily being changed through that as well.

[warnings: use of sexual terms, biological terms (basic 5th grade sex ed stuff) and partial sexual description. it's not too bad, nothing anyone who's taken sex ed or basic biology can't handle]

When a man and a woman have sex there is an exchange of bodily fluids. By the same way STD's are transmitted, Bella should have been turned during their sexual encounters.

Why?

Inside the vagina there is something called a mucus membrane. This is how STD's are transmitted, the semen sort of 'seeps' through it and whatever disease carried there (whether it be HIV/AIDS or herpes or even vampirism) is usually transmitted to the woman. Similairly a mucus membrane covers the penis, allowing whatever disease a woman might have to be passed to the man.

Because of this, the mucus membranes (also located inside the nasal passages and mouth) would similarly soak up whatever vamp!virus and change her no matter of being bitten. (she should have been changed whenever they so much as kissed if the venom is carried through his saliva since oral sex puts you at just as high a risk of contracting STD's as intercourse does)

As well, Renesmee should not exist. If venom can dissolve a contact lens in under 2 hours, it sure as hell can dissolve a delicate little human egg.

Meyer further messes up the biology as she says that 'vampires have 25 [pairs] of chromosomes'. That makes them biologically incompatible.

Humans have 46 chromosomes in each cell (known as somatic cells) while the egg and sperm have 23 chromosomes (also known as gametes) and are designed to match up together to begin mitosis. (basically, the cells duplicate over and over)

When the sperm and egg meet, they create something called a zygote cell. That cell duplicates, those two duplicate, those four duplicate and so on by means of mitosis. (mitosis is when the 46 chromosomes split up, duplicate and break off from each other)

Now, with a vampire (25 chromosomes) and a human (23 chromosomes) how could that possibly work? It CAN'T! The human gamete would match up with the vampire gamete and there would be 2 chromosomes left over from the vampire gamete.

Reproduction just doesn't work that way. (unless you count the horse/donkey thing but that's different. they are both from the equidae family and the equus genus. vamps may be from the hominidae family but they sure aren't from the homo genus. basically? you're trying to breed dogs and cats together here)

Additionally, the mule is left unable to breed because it has 63 chromosomes. (so the gamete would have an uneven number, rendering them incapable of procreation)

As for Bella getting changed? When two people have sex for the first time (or at least on the girls part) the hymen breaks. If you don't know what the hymen is, it's a thin piece of skin over the vagina that gets broken during intercourse and usually BLEEDS. The cut would have still been open when he came. Meaning? That when he ejaculated the 'venom' it would have gotten into the cut, changing her. (she also could have gotten turned DURING sex considering that pre-ejaculate is similar to semen just without the sperm, ergo=vampire pre-ejaculate would still have venom in it)

I would have liked BD more than I did if Stephenie had simply explained vampires by magic instead of science. But because she tried explaining them by science, science bit her in the butt.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm bashing. I'm not, I'm looking at this from a scientific point of view.

(as well, many points put in this came from the TS boards, originally posted by arzim)

down.the.rabbit.hole

Yeah good point. She really should have gone with mythical creature and all and left it at that.

Though your point with they hymen may be valid if Bella had used tampons the hymen would already have broken therefore no tearing.

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isawayorkiepoo · Number of posts: 8 Registration date: 2009-03-31

down.the.rabbit.hole wrote:

Yeah good point. She really should have gone with mythical creature and all and left it at that.

Though your point with they hymen may be valid if Bella had used tampons the hymen would already have broken therefore no tearing.

I noticed Meyer intentionally put in the tampon thing in the fourth book, but I've heard of girls using tampons and still having their hymen intact.

Plus, I think with the whole STD thing, whatever vamp!virus it is, would change her similarly.

I think there are plenty of routes Meyer could have gone not involving Renesmee, or even keeping Renesmee but explaining her vamps in a different way. (and come on, even in mythology, vampires are explained by a magic of some sort!)

Haley

My theory
Even though you wrote all of this, I still think that the venom is injected only through teeth. The vampires bite victims, don't they?
Carlisle was bitten by that stinky vampire in London, Edward and Esme were bitten by Carlisle in the neck, Rosalie was bleeding, but Carlisle bit her too, and Emmett also. Bella was all bleeding after Renesmee beeing out, but Edward still bit her in many places injecting the venom inside her body.
I trust my theory, because it explains everything. When they had sex, Edward didn't bite her, so no transformation there. Also when they were kissing, he was careful not touch her with his teeth [he was very specific about it in Midnight Sun]. It's all about teeth!
My theory is : Vampires are venomous, the venom runs through their veins, but since they can't bleed, it can't get out, unless through teeth. When vampires bite victim, they inject venom through their teeth. Vampires's teeth are venomous!
It really explains everything and I stick to it (:

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Eternal_Esme

actually that makes sense Hales,
cause a lot of animals, such as snakes,
inject venom into thier victims using thir teeth.

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down.the.rabbit.hole

Yeah but in MS didn't she describe it as the venom pooling in the mouth so it couldn't be just through the teeth.

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This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
The Hollow Men T.S. Eliot

Haley

Well..it's just scent of venom...not the venom itself..i dunno that's my theory, i respect the others's, but i stick to mine

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I WEAR PINK BUNNY EARS AND A KITTY TAIL EVERYDAY.
When I see something I like, I gotta... I love it.

BFFs : Rose,Sho,Moodz and Tsuki♥ ily guys so much :*

isawayorkiepoo · Number of posts: 8 Registration date: 2009-03-31

down.the.rabbit.hole wrote:

Yeah but in MS didn't she describe it as the venom pooling in the mouth so it couldn't be just through the teeth.

Yeah I agree. It's repeatedly referred to as venom pooling in his mouth and not from his teeth. (I'm fairly sure in traditional vampires, there is no venom and if there is it's injected through the fangs. however these vamps don't have fangs) With snakes the venom is also injected through fangs not teeth.

(but still, with Rennesmee? the venom would have burnt up that poor little egg anyway. and if it didn't, when the venom penetrated it, it would have changed the egg. cold, still and lifeless forever)

Haley

fangs, teeth, same thing

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I WEAR PINK BUNNY EARS AND A KITTY TAIL EVERYDAY.
When I see something I like, I gotta... I love it.

BFFs : Rose,Sho,Moodz and Tsuki♥ ily guys so much :*

iSMILE

wow you ppl are making alot of sense. i never thought of this like that. i just th ought that since this is kind of made up that it wouldn't matter but...it really does make sense. my only question is how come, then, would the venom dissolve contacts? that means that it can get out other ways then teeth.

maybe the vemon wasn't strong enough if it comes out anywhere besides teeth?[/b]

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Haley

well the venom runs through their veins. so it's in their blood and there is blood in eyes, so there's venom, too...or not?

_________________

I WEAR PINK BUNNY EARS AND A KITTY TAIL EVERYDAY.
When I see something I like, I gotta... I love it.

BFFs : Rose,Sho,Moodz and Tsuki♥ ily guys so much :*

isawayorkiepoo · Number of posts: 8 Registration date: 2009-03-31

Twilight_forever01 wrote:

wow you ppl are making alot of sense. i never thought of this like that. i just th ought that since this is kind of made up that it wouldn't matter but...it really does make sense. my only question is how come, then, would the venom dissolve contacts? that means that it can get out other ways then teeth.

maybe the vemon wasn't strong enough if it comes out anywhere besides teeth?[/b]

I'm thinking, from a writers prospective, that if the venom taking place of every other liquid in the vampires body didn't have some significance, she wouldn't have said anything about it.

Such as if their tears can dissolve a flimsy contact, their semen can dissolve a flimsy egg.

As well, what I'm wondering about it running through their veins, if their hearts don't beat, how does it pump the venom? How would it pump the venom down to his penis for him to even have sex? How come in Eclipse does it sound like their bodies are just rocks that can be torn apart?

I am just so confused about this whole series. I wish Stephenie had given more thought to all of this.

down.the.rabbit.hole

I don't think venom runs through their veins but it may just be made in specific parts of their bodies like the throat, mouth and penis.

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This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
The Hollow Men T.S. Eliot

RealityCheck · Number of posts: 4 Registration date: 2009-03-31

I was rereading Breaking Dawn and I'm at the part where Bella has to put on contacts to put on a show for Charlie. Alice told her that they may irritate her eyes.

If humans can't hurt vampires then how can measly contacts irritate her eyes? And I don't mean that she can see the microscopic scratches in the lenses that's not eye irritation.

Oh and if venom ran through their veins wouldn't it be bad if they 'bleed'?